006: Life After College

Millie: Hey, it’s Millie.

Gabi: It’s Gabi.

M: And we are back for another week of Change By Degrees. So, I think actually you’re starting us off this week.

G: Yeah, this will be interesting. Um, okay, so today it’s a little, I wouldn’t say different, but it’s not so much about in college but life after college is the topic, which you have not reached yet.

M: I have not. Soon.

G: A few more months. But I’ve been out of college for a little over a year. A year and two months. Three months. So, I just really want to talk about life after college and kind of how stigmas play into what people think life after college will be like and what it actually is like. So, to begin with, what are some of the stigmas or expectations that people have told you about life after college or that you’ve heard about people’s experiences. What are some of the things?

M: So, well to start off, the whole reason that I’m in college is because you’ve been told even by my parents not that it’s wrong but everyone around me like “college is important. It’s an essential step into like a complete life because you need it for a job.” I mean there are a lot of jobs in the workforce now that require a degree, and even now it’s like a master’s degree is what is needed in order to get anything. And so, I didn’t really want to go to college, but I get like I had to in order to get a job afterwards. And then going in, mason tells you great job you’re doing, you’re investing in myself and you need to because this is what guarantees you a job after college. And they even have a thing where they say 6 months after graduating you will be in a job. In a well-paying job and they’ll help you with the interview process and scouting possibilities and they’ll be there every step of the way. And 6 months you’ll be set. You will have your dream job and your life will go on the way you imagined it to be. So honestly, I’m super excited, this is how my life is going to pan out.

G: It’s gonna be great. Mason has your back the whole way.

M: All day every day.

G: I think that’s pretty similar to what most people experiences or are told about what life after college will be like and I think that’s just because, I mean, first of all, colleges want you to come to their college because that’s what they, they tell you that because they want to guarantee that oh of course you’ll get a job if you go to our institution. Which ok, that might be someone’s experience, I’m not saying it’s not. I know a lot of people who got out of college and they got a job. And their working full time and they’re doing their thing and they’re getting money and like it’s great. But more often than not, that’s not the case. And I think that is one thing that colleges don’t tell you is that first of all it’s okay if you graduate on May 5 and you don’t have a job by May 7.

M: What are you telling me right now?

G: I know it’s like mind blown. But it’s okay to say, “Oh yeah, no, I don’t have a job.” And that you’re looking or trying to discover what you want to do or whatever. I don’t think that’s a bad thing, I think people are like a little ashamed about that. And I don’t think that is necessarily something to be ashamed about because in my experience, like I graduated like a year and two months ago, and I was going into the workforce or whatever, and I was looking for a job, and I started looking for a job before I even graduated. Like I graduated in May, I started looking for a job in like January or even before that, because one of the applications I was turning in had to be turned in by October in order to be hired by that summer.

M: I see.

G: So, the whole year I was looking for jobs. I was applying nonstop, and I would get sometimes to, I would either get no call backs or no emails back or I would get a call back and I would make like just up to the line where they would choose someone. Lile I would get through all the steps of the application process

M: That’s tiring

G: And the very last minute, the last step they would be like no sorry we are going to go with someone else or no we are going to go a different direction, which is fine that’s valid companies don’t have to hire me I’m not saying I’m like a great resource that needs to be hired by every company, but. And that’s another topic about how the application process has like completely changed. You know, electronically obviously, you submit a resume and if you’re resume doesn’t have certain keywords that this company is looking for, then its automatically thrown out. So, no human ever looks at your resume—

M: Oh, news to me.

G: —Half the time. Which is a whole other thing and whatever, but anyway so my experience was such that when I did graduate and I didn’t have a job it became like a frantic, in my mind, I was frantically searching for a job and I was thinking what is wrong with me why don’t I have the job that I’m supposed to have for the next 40 years til I retire. Like my friend does, why don’t I? in my mind that was, there was something wrong. I was like what did I do wrong and I’m thinking back over my 4 years in college and I’m like what did I do wrong, there must have been a step that I did, there must have been a class—

M: That you missed.

G: —Yeah, that I missed or a class I took that I shouldn’t have or a class that I did take that I should have. It was just every little detail in my mind, I did something wrong. Something was completely wrong, terribly wrong. What was that thing? Not that it matters either because it’s not like you can go back and change that, but I mean that was the kind of thing that I felt.

M: It’s easy to regret.

G: Its totally easy.

M: Even, like, stepping in, through college, I totally regretted that I didn’t start where I was supposed to, but I felt in order to get the right job opportunities, because I didn’t know what I wanted, and I think that’s hard; some people don’t know what they wanna do going in. I mean, you knew writing, but even then, you feel you have a bunch of resources, but you don’t know if they’re right or wrong. And if people are really guiding you the right way, so thankfully I’ve been able to find an internship in my, like, what I wanna work in but even so I don’t know what I wanna do. And that’s okay.

G: And that’s the other thing, its okay. It’s okay, and, I don’t know, it’s just so funny to me how people have this expectation that every young adult knows what they’re doing and it’s like, “Well dude you’re like 50 and you don’t know what you’re doing what makes you think that I know what I’m doing?” So that was one thing, it was completely new to me that no one had ever told me that it’s okay that you aren’t hired right after college. And it happens to more people than you would think it’s just no one talks about it because everyone else thinks they’re alone as well. Just like with a lot of things happening in society, no one says anything because they think they’re the only person experiencing it. And the same goes for life after college I think, so that was one thing. But the people who do get jobs right after college—

M: Kudos to you.

G: Yeah kudos, fantastic, get that money, do your thing. Um but for people who don’t, that’s okay. And the other thing is to say, going off of that, you don’t owe anyone an explanation. And that was something that I had to tell myself. And I don’t know if people have started, they probably have started doing this to you, Millie.

M: Oh yeah, they’re like well, are you gonna stay her in the area, or are you gonna move out, what are your plans, are you going to stay with your parents, and it’s like all this expectations of like well you’re an adult now you’re done so you’ve figured it out, and I’m like I have an internship in a field that I like but I really don’t know every step, you know what I mean, like I’m enjoying what I’m doing and I want to keep enjoying what I’m doing, and I don’t know why people, I know they’re curios and they want to just find out things about you, but sometimes the way people approach it is super like if I don’t have an answer am I a bad person am I bad student am I not a good adult, you know what I mean, don’t put that pressure onto yourself. When people ask me, I’m like well you know I don’t know every step of the way but I’m trying the best I can, and I mean I’m praying about it and seeing where god wants me to be. Even though you’ve dedicated 4 years to something doesn’t mean that’s where you’re going to end up. And I mean I switched halfway through college and started spending more time with music but there’s students who may even my mom for example, she graduated with business and ended up doing something in government. So, these 4 years don’t dictate the rest of your life, and people treat it as such, so don’t fall into that pressure when people ask you like, “You’re about to graduate, so what are you doing for the rest of your life? Are you going to go touring with some band? Are you gonna be this big-time producer?” And I’m like, “Naw I’m working at my local church, and I love it, and I think that’s where I’m meant to be right now, and that might change.” So, you know what, calm down.

G: And if it does change, great, and if it doesn’t change okay. You know, it doesn’t matter, I think people, and like you mentioned the approach, it’s all about the approach, because some people would come up to me every time I would see them. Whether it would be once a week three times a week; didn’t matter. And they would ask me, “Oh have you found a job yet bla bla bla.” Because I was doing like 3 different part time jobs the summer I graduated, and so I would see people on a rotating basis and they would always ask; some people, like you said the approach, and some people would say, “Oh, well, like, I’m praying for you, I hope that works out bla bla bla,” and I’d be like, “Okay, thank you,” and other people were just super um, I don’t wanna say judgmental, but they would come at it with like, “Well have you found a job yet? Are you still applying?” Okay, well, first of all, yes, I’m still applying. I don’t like not having a job. Of course, I’m still applying. That’s all I do all day every day. It takes all day to fill out, like, 2 applications.

M: It’s a process.

G: That’s like a job in and of itself, and it was just super, and I always felt like I had to have an answer ready for people because I never knew, like if I’m walking through the store at Michael’s trying to get my craft on, and then someone, and that’s the other thing, it’s always like your parents’ friends or someone you barely know.

M: Yeah, it’s not like actually.

G: Those are the people who are the most curious. And you’re like, “You just want the tea!”

M: Yes!

G: To go spread to somebody else. You don’t care if I have a job or not. You just wanna know so you can say.

M: There’s more, you know, I would never be brave enough to say this, but like there’s more ways to have a conversation with me. Just because I’m at this age, this doesn’t mean I’m so ready and excited to talk about everything that is going right in my life. because it may not be all going right. So, like, “What are you gonna do with crafting?” Might be a better way to start a conversation with someone.

G: Yeah like, “Oh, what are you picking up, oh, I see you’re picking up some scrapbook paper, do you like doing that? Bla bla bla.” But no, it was always—and you can tell, the people lock eyes with you and you’re like.

M: Wanna run the other way.

G: Here comes Gladys, I’m ready, I have an answer prepared, like she’s gonna ask, and that’s the other thing that’s really hard is trying to explain to people who haven’t looked for a job, and I’m not saying this in like, I’m not trying to be shady, but people who haven’t had, they’ve had the same job for like 40 years. Which is great because they found that career and they like it and they enjoy it and they do it, but it’s like you don’t know what it’s like to apply for jobs now because the last time you did that was 40 years ago. So, trying to help me is not being helpful. Like you’re trying to tell me tips and do things, and that’s not helpful.

M: Especially in our field like we do a lot of freelance and it’s not like a consistent 9-5 Monday through Friday. I’m like, I do this, and I get this amount of money and then you don’t know you might have 20 jobs in a week and then you might have 20 weeks with no job.

G: Super unreliable sometimes.

M: Right, and I think people are like well do you wanna—what peoples experiences have been must be the experience you are going to have. And it’s like no it’s not like that. It’s not that it’s not legitimate, but I think in today’s day and age, our careers aren’t built like that. They could be, and I know that going in. so I think another good point, I don’t know if you have someone in your life who has kind of guided you through this process, but for me I have like great mentors and small group that I’ve connected with and they can encourage me. Because trust me, there’s been, you know, I remember the end of the week, and it’s been such a crappy week, and I don’t know if this is where I’m meant to be. And they’re like no I can still see God working through you and in your life and you’re not, it’s a struggle right now but they can share how they’ve struggled and that’s such an encouragement to me. I don’t know if you’ve had someone like that in your life because without them, I’d be, I probably would have quit or switched to something else because I’m not seeing the results right now.

G: Yeah and that’s the other thing is having a support group which is also something that I think people struggle with outside of college. Or life after college because everyone graduates and all your friends who were your support group after college, everyone goes to a different area of the state of the country of the world, and your kinda spread out whether you move back home, whether you get a job somewhere else. Everyone is just kinda gone. That can be difficult because where is your support system, and it is important to have a support system, and I had a small group as well that was super helpful, and that's the other thing also, okay so you’re best friend doesn’t live two houses down from you? You can text them and call them whenever you want.

M: Yeah technology. What a time to be alive.

G: So, you can still have, I don’t want to say virtual, but a support system can take place over text.

M: Skype, FaceTime calls.

G: Yeah like it doesn’t have to be someone who lives right down the street from you. You can talk to um close friends I had in college and we talk all the time, or we talk once a month, and that’s a support system because they might be going through the exact same thing, they just live three hours away. So that’s still a support system. And I think it’s also really important you mentioned kind of like how you maybe wanted to switch paths, or weren’t sure if you were on the right path and maybe switching majors, and it’s like that’s the other thing, it’s also like whatever plan is set for you, that’s what’s gonna happen. Whatever path is already preordained for you by God, like you’re not powerful enough to switch that.

M: To change it.

G: To do something that is gonna change—so—

M: Preach.

G: That’s what I don’t understand when people give you crap about what you’re doing in this point and time and it’s like, “Who are you to say anything, because obviously this is what I’m supposed to be doing right now or else I wouldn’t be doing it. So why are you—? You know?

M: I’ve felt like I’ve messed up and I’m like well this, and I can say that already, I’m like, I think I needed to have that freshman year of computer engineering to figure out number one, I want to do music because if I went in, I would have dropped out. I can tell you right now, I would have dropped out because it was hard, and the class where I’m like, I’m getting Cs out here, I’m not meant to do this, and I had my youth pastor say like, “No Millie, you are meant to be in music; to be in worship ministry.” And I would, we have band rehearsals Tuesday nights, and I would share in our prayer circle I’m like, “Guys, this professor hates me, how can this be what I’m supposed to be doing?” And I needed those people to be encouraging, to stick to the path, and you’re gonna have other people who may not say that and they might suggest that you know…you need those encouraging other Christians in your life to say no this is what you’re meant to be doing. And that’s super valuable to me. I’m not there yet, but thankfully I know who I can look to and who can actually—you know people who speak into your life and give you advice you need to watch for; not everyone can do that. They need to know you and spend time with you in order to—don’t let other people’s opinions hold weight who really don’t spend time with you.

G: Exactly, and that’s the thing that people will try to give you advice all the time and it’s like okay, dude, well we’ve never hung out we’ve never had a conversation, why are you trying—I know you’re trying to be helpful ,but please stop trying to be helpful; and that’s when you just have to let people talk. Like “yes okay, no I understand, yeah that’s really—mhhm. That’s helpful, thank you for that Gladys, in the craft aisle at Michael’s.” So that’s when you also have to filter out and you have to tell yourself “okay what she said might be valuable to someone else but it’s not valuable to me. It’s not valuable.” And that’s okay to say. It’s not being rude, it’s just saying thank you for your opinion, I don’t want it.

M: Thank you.

G: Thank you for telling me these things but, for me personally, it’s not something that is ever gonna be useful to me. And that’s okay to say that. But when you do have people that speak into your life and who are super supportive, and super—

M: Listen to them.

G: Yeah like listen, and it’s so valuable to have a mentor or someone who is just speaking truth into your life. Its invaluable, like I wouldn’t say its—people don’t value it, it’s just not something people talk about enough. Just having that one person, just one person, if you have 5, great, but if you have one person to just speak into your life once a week or to have coffee with or to catch up with, and they might need it to. Just because it’s your mentor or something doesn’t mean you can’t switch roles.

M: Of course.

G: And it’s just so important to do that. I think it’s important to get an outside perspective and to also have someone validate what you’re feeling or what you’re thinking. And there’s this great book, and I’m just gonna plug it because it’s fantastic. And I recommend it to everyone I know.

M: I will read it.

G: It’s so good, I told you about this earlier in our text message. It’s one of the books.

M: Oh yeah yeah yeah

G: It’s called Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer. And it’s really short, it’s like a tiny book, and he’s just talking about how we are all born with a purpose, like we are born with something that we are meant to do. It’s from a Christian perspective, but it’s really really good like for anyone its fantastic, and it’s good for people who are either in college or about to graduate or even adults who are kind of confused about what they are supposed to be doing or a little bit lost on what their purpose is, because that’s a super existential question to be like “what is my purpose on this earth.”

M: It’s the struggle.

G: And yeah, we are all given unique talents and gifts. Like Millie does music. I don’t have that talent; I can’t even read music.

M: I’ve heard her sing every once in awhile.

G: That doesn’t count I wasn’t even trying. But I can’t read music at all.

M: And if you want me to write a paper, you’re doomed, basically.

G: Right

M: She’s edited more than one of my college papers, thank you, Jesus, because I struggle.

G: Well you know, you can’t edit, and I can’t read music, so—

M: Drag me. I can’t edit?

G: You can edit, its just—okay.

M: Grammar is the struggle.

G: Every time I read something you type, I’m like I think I know what you’re trying to say but that’s not how you say that. But we just have different gifts. And that’s why we complement each other and work well together. Um, because the things that I know I’m bad at you’re good at and the things that you’re good at I can’t do. So um but the book just kind of talks about you’re vocation and how, and he calls it listening for the voice of vocation, and there was one chapter that was really interesting to me that really affirmed what I already knew but it just affirmed what I knew and brought it to the forefront of my mind to be like, “no this is correct, I know this is correct.” One chapter talks about: Think back to when you were a child, like what was something that you were doing all the time when you were a child? What was that thing that you enjoyed? You had no preconceived notions of what was socially acceptable as a job or no preconceived notions of what your parents wanted you to do, what was something you just enjoyed doing? And for me that was writing, like I remember being like in 1st grade, and I had this stupid notebook that was so beat up.

M: I can picture this.

G: Yeah, I was the nerdiest—it’s fine. And um I had like a little pen and during school I would, I was a good student I wouldn’t write in it during school but at recess, like our one hour that we had, or half hour, to like run around and do whatever we wanted, I would bring out my notebook to the playground and I would sit there and write these really crappy poems.

M: That’s awesome.

G: I only had like 5 words in my vocabulary, so they all rhymed really well because tree, glee.

M: Wow.

G: It was a lot of nature poems.

M: You should release that.

G: I was a romanticist. I was like was little Wordsworth, yeah. I was like the trees and oh my god, the wind and all that.

M: Yes.

G: And I remember thinking back and being like, “I love writing.” Being a 5-year-old, 6-year-old and knowing that this is what I’m meant to do, like I’m a good writer, like I know that. I’m supposed to write.

M: Of course.

G: And I needed that reminder when I got out of college, like, I’m a writer I know that. And I was just a reminder, its super simple to think back and remember the things you enjoyed when you were a child but it’s also—

M: Well its simple but people don’t think about that.

G: Yeah.

M: I mean there are undeclared majors, which is totally fine too, you know, because you have to find what you do like. Like I didn’t discover—I was like listening to music but I think everyone can say that, but it wasn’t until like high school til I was part of our youth band, I just played guitar, I didn’t think about like—well there’s not a lot of money in that. But I think that’s a really good reminder, and I need to read it because it’s important to know, like, think about it. Some people are just like this, but not everyone may be like that. And just think about what you like.

G: And it might not even be that deep.

M: Gabi the poet.

G: It was really—it was really sad, like I still, I was gonna throw the notebook away when I was cleaning my room one day, and my mom was like oh my god, and she was reading them. It was so embarrassing. Because they were all pretty much the same.

M: Trees.

G: I’m like 7, and I don’t know any words besides like 10. I’m still learning how to spell my name I don’t even know, but I would just sit there like tree, glee.

M: That’s gold. Sell it on eBay for 1000 bucks.

G: Yeah dude, when I’m famous one day you’ll all see. 

M: Yes. I’m so excited.

G: Don’t be it’s gonna—

M: I’ll be the highest bidder.

G: I’ll sign it for you too. I don’t even know if its legible to other people. I mean I know what I was trying to write, but everything is spelled incorrectly of course.

M: That’s okay.

G: It was an artist’s first little steps.

M: Yes, a little Vincent van Gogh.

G: I was super introspective child, so I was very all the poems are very borderline angsty. But I was very angsty before it was cool. Like in middle school when everyone was going through the emo phase.

M: Trendsetter.

G: I was like dude middle school being angsty? I was like a 1st grader. Like the trees give me all sorts of feelings. Like I was very wow. But anyway, that was a little shameless plug for that book, and its short, and I think everyone should read it but that’s just me. Just my opinion, um or listen to it. I’m sure they have an audiobook I know some people like hate reading.

M: Audible I’m sure has it.

G: It’s really good you should just do that. But anyway, any other concluding thoughts?

M: I think that’s really important I for sure find value in that because like I said I have lots of adult mentors who have full time jobs and who are already rocking it in life but to hear it from you, like you’re just a year off and I’m about to be there.

G: You’re almost there. You’re gonna get to that after life after college life.

M: But I that was some great advice. And I feel less worried about it. I know I’m being lied to but now I can—

G: Your school is lying. It’s hard to, some people literally go to school, graduate, and get a job, and they’re super set.

M: I think especially in fields not like ours that aren’t as creative. 

G: That the thing, engineers there are always jobs for you, but creative types,

M: It’s hard.

G: Yeah, the right brained of the world have a harder time. Also, our brains just tell us we need to be like free spirited. And you’re like okay brain please stop I need money like.

M: Exactly. So, I think that’s incredibly valuable to me, so I thank you personally.

G: Yes of course.

M: And we will be back with another regular episode. I know that was a little bit out of the usual, but I think it’s really important, because if you’re in college you’re going to be not in college at some point. Even if you’re not a year away

G: Even if you’re a freshman, it goes by so fast. Think about it.

M: Think about it.

G: Think about it now and not a month after you graduate like I did. And I had to do like some catch up.

M: Quarter life crisis, anyone?

G: Always.

M: Always.

G: Every other day I’m living a life crisis. Which is fine.

M: But it’s okay, stay connected follow us on our social media, we will be updating with some stories, some funny bits, you already know.

G: We have tons of content we need to just throw out there.

M: Exactly. But we’ll see you next week.

G: See you guys.

M: See ya.